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Tom Carroll and The Hudson Mohawk Industrial Gateway Tom, could you give us a brief description of your background, especially as it pertains to Troy? The best way to describe me is I'm a fourth generation townie from Princeton, NJ. My great grandfather came from Ireland in the 1850s, a survivor of the Great Hunger as its now being called. My grandfather was a construction worker involved in building of the football stadium and hockey rink at Princeton University. My grandfather, after starting his own company, was tragically killed when a piece of equipment malfunctioned. He left behind a widow, four sons and an adopted daughter. I grew up in the 50s and showed some mathematical abilities and, in those days, it was your patriotic duty if you could do math, to become a rocket scientist. It didn't help any that I was born on Albert Einstein's 70th birthday in his adopted hometown! (which no one let me forget). So I went to Cal-Tech as an undergraduate thinking I wanted to become a scientist and engineer. It was there I fell in love with history. I had a very peculiar first year humanities professor by the name of Byrd Jones who asked a lot of questions about why the world was the way it was and what else could it have been. I never thought about history in that way and I was just hooked. It took a couple of years to make up my mind but I changed my major and got a bachelors degree in history from Cal-Tech. I then went to the University of Pennsylvania and ended up at RPI. I landed a tenure track faculty job in 1980 and that's when my wife Ann and I moved to Troy. We fell in love with it and became Gateway members immediately and took all the tours. We've lived here ever since. We never got the bug to live in the æburbs like many of my friends. I like living in Troy; it's an absolutely stunning area for history of American technology. It is of international significance and one of the most important sites in North America. It's a story not well told. What is "The Gateway" - and where are you located? The Hudson Mohawk Industrial Gateway was initially chartered in October 1972 as a non profit organization to advocate the historic preservation and adaptive re-use of the industrial heritage of this area, to encourage traditional industries to stay, and to encourage new industries to come and to keep the business area economically vital. It was primarily the brain child of Tom Phelan who first proposed it at a conference at HVCC. It really got its start in 1971 as a project of the preservation committee at Rensselaer County Historical Society. It took off and got so big they decided to make it an organization of its own. Since early 1980 it has been located at what I call the Burden Ironworks Museum next to the Rensselaer County Jail in South Troy. The Gateway acquired the building in 1974 and quickly placed it on the National Registry of Historic Places. What is your involvement in Troy, the community? I have not been terribly involved in the Troy community. I was just always overrun with work. My wife got a little involved but I never seemed to have a spare moment so I never got that involved other than to contribute money to a lot of things. What type of programs will be offered by The Gateway? The thing we're best known for is our tours. The first thing we do, probably more than anything, is to educate people about just how valuable the history of this area is. Tours are the best known way we do it. What people don't know is that we do a lot of school programs and individual one-on-one help. To give an example, I have visited, lectured, taken on tour, the Maplewood School Kindergarten Class, Hartland School, College of Saint Rose, RSC, HVCC, 3 different groups from RPI, Poestenkill Elementary, Tamarac School, Van Rensselaer Elementary, etc. We have had a program at School 12. I'd like to have a more comprehensive school program for the children. One of the things I'd like to start is a regular program within the Troy Public school system. I think that no child should grow up in Troy ignorant of how significant this area is to the history and technology of this world. They should know that. Besides education, there is preservation. We keep and preserve collections of important records. Whenever we can help broker or advocate preservation of something else, we do so. We also support the economic development of the area. Is there a membership? If so, what are the details on joining? Yes. An individual membership is $15/year, $10 for students and senior citizens and $25 per family, or larger amounts if you'd like to be a supporter or benefactor. In return for a membership you get a $2 discount on any of our tours, an occasional newsletter, a 10% discount at Historic Home Supply on River Street and you also feel like you're trying to help out. In your opinion, what are Troy's greatest assets? How will The Gateway capitalize on these assets? It's hard to pick out just one. In many respects, one of the most valuable things about Troy is its tenacity as a community. It has stuck it out through a very, very, rough time. It's not one of the wealthiest or in very good shape but it certainly has the potential to be. It didn't just flatten everything out in the 1960s like the South Bronx. A large chunk of downtown did get replaced by the Atrium but that was all. In many respects The Gateway was partly in response to those continuing efforts. What was then called urban renewal would end up destroying the wonderful assets that Troy had in its buildings. The people of Troy are extremely hearty. I'm very impressed that the people of South Troy have kept up their churches; they still have congregations and people are still dug in here. That makes it a much more vital place. It has retained its character and that helps a lot. One of the reasons Troy became the Troy that it did was because of it's location and geography. It's very rare that a single site has good transportation and good resources for commerce and industry in the era of water-based commerce and industry. Troy had the correct spot on the Hudson River for shipping and commerce and the water falls less than a mile away made hydra power to put mills up. Normally those two are separated. Today these things are not as important. However, Troy is still in a good location. It is right on the river, has some wonderful architecture, easy access to skiing, Saratoga, Boston, New York City, and Montreal. You can afford a decent home here. Troy also has a wonderful educational infrastructure with RPI, Russell Sage College, HVCC, and Emma Willard. Troy was, at one time, supplying the nation with shirts, shoes, rivets, fire hydrants, etc. It could very easily turn that corner again and become the next Silicon Valley. What do you think are the strongest qualities that you bring to The Gateway? I'm told by everybody that the thing I'm best at is my boundless enthusiasm and energy which is probably more important than my expertise. Second, is that I was very fortunate to have done my graduate work at arguably the best programs in the area of history and technology around at the time I got my degree, and studied with one of the foremost experts in that area, Thomas Hughes. I know, pretty much on a first name basis, people who are on the staff at The Smithsonian, The Science Museum in London, Lowell National Historic Site, etc. I know a lot of people who are doing this kind of thing. I am hoping to network this, to make them more aware of what is happening here as well as to help me make this as useful and acceptable as I can in this area. I love to give talks, I love to teach, I like to write. I'm hoping I can give lots of lectures and write curriculum material. I also grew up in a house that was built partly in the 1700s and partly in the 1800s. Early on I started playing a role in the maintenance and repair of that home so I know a lot about fixing old buildingsāit's come in very handy here! I'm told that I can be a very good sales person, persuade people to buy things, cajole things and give grants to things. Mostly I'd say that I'm very committed. I gave up a tenured job at RPI to take this on. It's a great challenge and great fun and I think it has enormous potential to become a magnet to draw positive national attention to Troy. I'm a reasonably organized person which is important when your taking care of collections. And I'm not adverse to cleaning and fixing the latrine. You have to be willing to do such things to be Executive Director! Why do you think so many of our readers wanted to see you interviewed? I haven't a clue. I'll tell you something, I have been surprised and extremely gratified by the positive response I have gotten by the Troy community. It's been very moving, there is enormous good will towards The Gateway. Everyone has been so encouraging. They'd say "Tom, this is a perfect job for you." I think that many people want to see The Gateway succeed. I've done a very strange thing here, giving up a secure academic "cushy" job to do this other āthing. I'm very gratified! However, I need another 1,000 members in two years to make this organization work. I'm much more convinced that it will happen based on how generous people have been. I was very worried that people would think, "Here comes another one of those carpet-bagger professor types who thinks that he is going to descend on the city and take over these institutions." I was very worried about that but have really seen the opposite. People in the neighborhood have come up to me, shook my hand to say thanks for helping out. What role do you believe The Gateway will have in helping Troy back on its feet? As I said, we have to be a little opportunistic, I really don't know what we're going to do. The basic idea is we can help get the message out that this area has a terrific heritage, a terrific infrastructure Because I'm taking this angle that this is not simply the birthplace of the American industrial revolution which is sort of the standard story sort of the Silicon Valley of the 19th century. You can say that Troy is the birthplace of the American industrial revolution and people will say fine but the American industrial revolution is over and your day has come and gone and you're just going to sink low into the west. If we were the Silicon Valley of the 19th century, there is no reason why we couldn't be the silicon valley of the 21st century. That is a repeatable phenomenon. I think I can help with that. If I can bring a little outside money to make this into a valuable museum then I'll bring in a few extra dollars into Troy. And that's the idea, to have dollars flow into Troy and not have then flow out. If I can convince the Civil War buffs all over the country as they travel around looking for Civil War things, they could stop here and see where the armor for the Monitor was made, if I can convince the horse enthusiasts that they should come and see where the modern horseshoe was invented, they'd come in here and have a better appreciation of Troy than they had before. I am astounded by how many of our friends in places like Niskayuna, Delmar, Loudonville, who never set foot in Troy and think that the only thing that could happen to you is that you could have your car broken into and you'd be robbed or shot. If I could only convince them that probably the most beautiful architecture in the capital district is here, arguably some of the best restaurants in the capital district are here, certainly the best music hall is here. Some of the nicest streets, best parades, and most Tiffany windows are here. Probably the most stable working class neighborhoods are in Troy, more than any place else in the capital district. We get so many people in here who say "I never knew that about Troy, that's neat". I get that all the time, I'm sure you do too. If I can get a couple of people to overcome their prejudices against Troy then I'm doing something. I'd like to get the school kids to grow up proud of their city. If I can get a handful of undergraduates to feel lucky they are going to college in this city then I'll have done something. I guess that's the kind of thing I'd like to accomplish. The Gateway 274-5267 carroll@rpi.edu http://www.rpi.edu/~carroll/ In cooperation with Troy United Ink Corp., a not-for-profit corporation 
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